Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:24:48 +0000
Sender: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture
<H-ASIA@H-NET.MSU.EDU>
From: Marilyn Levine, Lewis-Clark
<mlevine@lcsc.edu>
Subject: H-ASIA: Race in China
To: H-ASIA@H-NET.MSU.EDU
From: jkirk@micron.net
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:53:12 -0700
I was confused by Dikoetter's title, and Sivin's response, because, as
I was taught in Physical Anthropology, biologically speaking there is no
such thing as race
in human populations. If it existed in times past
(race: an isolated and inbreeding population), it ceased to exist also in
the past reaches of mostly unrecorded time (except for lost tribes
so-called, which usually turned out to be lost
only to foreign
explorers/intruders; thus not lost
and not totally isolated in their
breeding.) Compare the correct notion: a race of fruit flies
. Race,
because raised (in the lab) with no breeding outside their group.
Race
is therefore a folk/popular/unscientific term for ethnicity. Just
because race
attributes are often based on phenotypical characteristics
does not validate it. Thus, I'm not disturbed that Dikoetter's book made
the equation noted by Sivin. I haven't seen the book. I hope that the
author does not hold that race
is a scientific concept for social
analysis, except as an item of popularly shared views (culture).
Jo Kirkpatrick
Independent scholar
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:03:38 -0400
From: S.H. Friberg
<hakan.friberg@orient.su.se>
No, in his excellent book on _The Discourse of Race in Modern China_, Frank
Dikotter does not hold that 'race' is a scientific concept for social
analysis.
Dikotter's book is very clear on that question. It is perhaps
best to quote from the preface:
Race,of course, is a cultural construct with no relationship to objective reality. Phenotypal variations like hair texture or skin colour are subjectively perceived and culturally constructed by social groups: some may focus on skin colour, others on eye colour. These biological differences do not of themselves induce cultural differences, but are utilized to legitimize role expectations: physical features are given social meaning. Classifications based on physical appearance have no scientific foundation. Races do not exist, they are imagined.
Neither does Dikotter systematically confuse race with ethnicity. What he
does is that he analyses and describes different ways that race
has been
constructed in modern China, and the very complex relations between the
discourse on race and discourses concerning other (constructed) concepts
such as lineage and nation.
Hakan Friberg
Center for Pacific Asia Studies
Stockholm University, S-10691 Stockholm, Sweden
Phone: +46 (8) 16 27 22 Cell: +46 (708) 187 184
Fax: +46 (8) 16 88 10
e-mail: hakan.friberg@orient.su.se
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:24:48 +0000
From: Nicholas R. Clifford
<clifford@panther.middlebury.edu>
Just to clarify a point raised by Jo Kirkpatrick recently. It's been a while since I read Dikoetter's book, but it deals quite clearly not with Race in China, but with (as the title says) The Discourse of Race in Modern China.
As he says, 'Race', of course is a cultural construct with no relationship
to objective reality,
and the word generally appears in quotation marks. His
point thus is not to study 'race' or even 'ethnicity', but rather race-thinking
and race discourse, a phenomenon by no means restricted to the West, and
occupying (if you buy his arguments) an important place in modern China.
Moreover that race-thinking and race discourse, far from being simply an import
from the West, had old, old Chinese roots. James Pusey's _China and Charles
Darwin_ also deals with modern conceptions of race in China.
'Race' is one of those many words that must be understood in its historical
context, and when we lift the term out of (say) a 19th century or early 20th
century text, we cannot assume that it carried the same meaning for readers
then that it does today. Race
could mean ethnic or linguistic groups
(Italians, Welsh, Germans) or even religious groups, for example (Henry Louis
Gates claims to have met a member of the House of Lords who told him that any
Englishman could tell the difference between a Protestant and a Catholic
Irishman, for example). Or even social groups: in _Barchester Towers_ Trollope
writes of the race of Tory squires
who could never forgive Robert Peel for
axing the Corn Laws.
To insist on historical context may seem obvious, but it demands a historical sense, and what the danger of ethnocentrism is to the student of other cultures, the danger of anachronism (usually present-mindedness) is to the historian. And these days, for all the talk about the New Historicism (whatever happened to that, by the way?) present-mindedness is very much with us.
Elazar Barkan, The Retreat of Scientific Racism:
Changing concepts of race in Britain and the United States between the
world wars (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1992.) is
full of interesting stuff on the subject, although unfortunately like
most writers on the subject, he has very little to say on Euramerican
views of the yellow races
. If anyone knows some good work on
thatand particularly where, in the days when anthropologists and
others sought to classify races according to some hierarchical scheme,
the Chinese fit in, I'd like to know about it.
Barkan does have one wonderful quotation (p. 227) which I'll pass on
because it's too good to be missed. In 1919 Edward M. East of Harvard
(!!) and Donald F. Jones, in their book Inbreeding
and Outbreeding asserted that the Irish were principally the
product of the intermingling of two savage Mongolian tribes.
So that brings Central Asian studies right up to our shores, doesn't it?
Nick Clifford
clifford@panther.middlebury.edu