Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 14:20:48 -0500
Sender: owner-SECULAR-L@cornell.edu
From: "Aditya, The Hindu Skeptic" <a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
To: THE INDIAN SECULARIST MAILING LIST <SECULAR-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Aryan Theory
How do you explain the voluminous refernces to various wars in Rigveda if Aryan were so peaceful a tribe?
As a matter of of fact all the gods in Rigveda including Indra, Agni etc are warriors.
Not that I see anything wrong in this but we should not impose our present day concept of peace to the ancient times.
Aditya Mishra
Phone/FAX 305-746-0442
email: a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 19:26:20 -0500
Sender: owner-SECULAR-L@cornell.edu
From: "Aditya, The Hindu Skeptic" <a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
To: THE INDIAN SECULARIST MAILING LIST <SECULAR-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Aryans (fwd)
Mr. Agrawal in his reply to my previous note writes:
For details on this subject, please read: Aryan Invasion Theory and Indian Nationalism By Shrikant G. Talageri.
I would suggest that he and other readers of this list read the original Rigveda for their own evaluation and not depend on some third party's views.
I have read a copy of the Hindi translation of Sayan's bhasya by Dr. Ganga Sahai Sharma, Ph.D.(sanskrit), Vyakarnacharya published by Sanskrit Sahitya Prakashan, New Delhi(1979) and just to quote one Sukta , Mandala 6, Sukta 33 (devta- Indra), Richa 3:
"O, Great hero Indra! You destroy both Dasyu and Arya enemies...."
This shows that Aryan's did have two kinds of enemies. One of them are the aryans in Iran etc that Mr. Agrawal refers to but there were also other enemies that were not Aryan.
If you read further Sukta's you will notice that all the wars are not metaphorical but some are historical and actual wars with enemies. The most valuable possession of Aryan's was a horse which was mostly used for war. Horse was considered more valuable than cows, the second most valuable possessions.
Aditya Mishra
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email: a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 10:59:55 -0500
Sender: owner-SECULAR-L@cornell.edu
From: "Aditya, The Hindu Skeptic" <a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
To: THE INDIAN SECULARIST MAILING LIST <SECULAR-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Aryans
Mr. Agrawal in his reply to my previous note writes:
That is what exactly is the point. The proponents of AIT have been relying on the translations and interpretations of Vedic literature by those people who either never understood the true meaning behind the vedic hymns or interpreted the verses to suit their own false assumptions. There is nowhere in the Vedas an iota of evidence which even remotely indicates that there was any Aryan race coming from outside of Indian peninsula and invaded some indigineous people. There is absolutely no evidence in Vedas.
He is discussing two separate issues. (a) Vedas an (b) Aryan migration. All the evidence for (b) does not have to come from (a) only which can either confirm or dispute some of the evidence from other avenues such as comparative linguists, anthropology, archeology and most importantly the new and emerging technology of genome mapping.
He further writes: It would also help you to read Sri Aurobindo's treatise on Vedic literature.
I have not had the opportunity to read his works but it does not deprive my right to make independent study of the original Veda text. For some reason, Hindus worship Vedas but never read it. Part of the reason is, that it was a sin for non-brahmins to read them and a Sudra could even be killed if he did read it. Vedas are cloaked in such a hush-hush secrecy that most Hindus would rather pray them than read. It is a shame that Europeans got to read it before many Hindus did learn about them. We would probably not even had the text but for the interest of some German indologist and I regret that this fact led to Hilter's assumptions that Germans were the true Aryans.
He further writes: All the conflicts are among the people who were living in India, and considered the Sapta sindhu as their motherland.
I am not sure about the invasion as such but it is well established fact that the homo sapiens started in Africa and migrated to all the other parts of the world at different periods in pre-historical times. In this process there have been strifes between different waves of immigrants and Aryans could not be an exception. I do not believe in any inherent superiority of one race( I use the term rather vaguely) over the other.
Aditya Mishra
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email: a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
(Please excuse for the extra long address)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 12:25:40 -0500
Sender: owner-SECULAR-L@cornell.edu
From: "Aditya, The Hindu Skeptic" <a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
To: THE INDIAN SECULARIST MAILING LIST <SECULAR-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Aryans.
In-Reply-To: <199502071550.KAA02254@tfidev19.tfisys.dlj.com>
Thank you for sharing your interest in the matter of common concern and history. On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Rajesh Kuwar wrote:
As u said all the evidence for aryan migration shouldnot come from vedas. If the vedas do contain info much prior to then what has been said then what. Just because most of us were not able to read vedas that doesn't means that we should accept the westerners way of interpretation. We should thank them they made us realize that vedas r not meant to be prayed but considered as a souce of enlightment.
As you can guess from my last name I am a high caste Brahmin and therfore entitled to study Veda but have willingly given up my privileges just like I gave my majority status in India to come to USA and become a minority because I value human rights and do not believe in any privilege based on birth or place of origin.
The truth is not based on Western or Eastern interpretation and I like to keep my mind open from wherever it comes from.
As I said in my prior note, I consider it was a great injustice in Hindu society which persecuted Shudras for using their brains. I hope you have heard the case of Shudrak who was killed by no other than THE RAMA who is worshiped by the pseudo-hindus like VHP and BJP etc for political reasons. A society that can worship a Wife abuser and Shudrak killer cannot be a source of enlightenment in my opinion.
I am proud to be an Arya but no more that I would be proud of being an African if I had been born in Africa. I have inherited all the that is good in them as well as all that is deplorable.
I do not see why is it so important for the Hindutva lobby to insist that Aryans mushroomed in the soil of Indian subcontinent.
What about recent World Arch.. Convention held in India, they came to common believe that aryans didn't invade but were here originally.I have not read about the WAC and who are people who attended it. But science is not a matter of belief but reasoning. I do not care whatever belief they had whether common or not. In any case as I mentioned earlier I do not want to base my opinions on Archeologists or Vedas or any single source.
Doesit matter that human beings evevoled in Africa or anywhere else.Yes it does since it proves the common inheritance of homo sapiens.
That whole land mass was commmon long time ago. So where does thatThat was probably before most life forms evolved.
civilizations had common believe that there was a great flood. Now whatThat is a myth and I am not talking of myths.
Aditya Mishra
Phone/FAX 305-746-0442 (Please leave message)
email: a018967t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
(Please excuse for the extra long address)
Prodigy: TVDS96A