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Roots of Latin

A bifurcated dialog on ANE list
October 1997

On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Elmer Smalling wrote:

Can anyone direct me to information about the period during which Latin grew out of Greek and the process involved? What happened to the Etruscan source?

Latin didn't grow out of Greek. They are two separate descendents of Proto-Indo-European. See Andrew L. Sihler, A New Comparative Grammar of Greek and Latin, (New York & Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1995), which is an extensive rewrite of Carl D. Buck, A Comparative Grammar of Greek and Latin, (Chicago, 1952), updated to include Myceneaean sources. Buck is still worthwhile though, especially for the sections on the fundamentals of historical linguistics (pp. 35-63).

Bob Whiting
whiting@cc.helsinki.fi

I hope you're referring to the Latin alphabet, which was adapted from the Etruscan alphabet, which was adapted from the Greek alphabet--and not some relationship among these languages, which is nonexistent.

Latin and Greek have a common Indo-European source, but no particularly close connection; Etruscan has not been shown to be related to any other known language.

You will find a good introduction to these questions in the chapters by Larissa Bonfante and Pierre Swiggers in The World's Writing Systems, edited by me and William Bright (Oxford, 1996).

Peter T. Daniels
grammatim@worldnet.att.net

Thanks to all who responded re: the root of Latin.

I was thinking about the alphabet. I too thought that the alphabet was based on Etruscan but, In the Oct. 18 1997 issue of The Jerusalem Post, Abraham Rabinovitch says, ". . . the Greek alphabet in turn was transformed into Latin, the script that underwrote Western civilization."

Two thoughts -

1. I am amazed that Latin (the language) seems (to me) to have come from out of historical nowhere. . .a collection of agrarian city states. . .to rule the Greek world.

2. It is hard to imagine that we know so little about the Etruscans when I examine their marvelous hand-work and read what little we know of their society.

Respectfully,
Elmer Smalling III
Jenel Systems and Design International, Inc. Plano, Texas USA
HOME PAGE = http://www.connect.net/smalling
E-mail: smalling@connect.net
esmalling@acm.org
smalling@scientist.com

Elmer:

I'd tend to go with the poster (PTD) who mentioned the passage of the alphabet from Greece through the Etruscan civilization down to the Romans. When the Greeks went west their contacts in Italy were with the Etruscans especially in Campagna (the area around Naples). The progress of changes in the alphabet reflect this trajectory.

Two thoughts -

1. I am amazed that Latin (the language) seems (to me) to have come from out of historical nowhere...a collection of agrarian city states... to rule the Greek world.

This is somewhat misrepresenting the situation, I'd say.

2. It is hard to imagine that we know so little about the Etruscans when I examine their marvelous hand-work and read what little we know of their society.

We actually know a lot about the Etruscans, though not very much through their writings: we have so little written material. What we know is obviously a strange collection of odd data because it comes mainly via sepulchral remains, tomb frescoes, and little from the realm of the living. The social aspects, religion, town planning and architecture are all well represented in our knowledge. It's merely the lack of the reassuring literary component with all its potential to hide reality that makes us think we know little about them.

Jay
jhays@mail.com

Latin did not grow out of Greek! They are sisters, but not as close to one another as may be presumed from the fact that they are categorized as "Classical Languages." In fact, Latin may be more closely related to Celtic than to Greek.

Sara Mandell

On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Elmer Smalling wrote:

Can anyone direct me to information about the period during which Latin grew out of Greek and the process involved? What happened to the Etruscan source?